Hey y’all! This is your producer Caitlin. I’m here to take you behind the scenes with one of our Callers who got the hang up.

So if you’re not caught up and aren’t yet ready to hear who got the hang up, this is your chance to pause and go back and listen.

Today I’m here with… Sasha. Sasha was in our final three Callers. But she got the hang up after the Star Sixty Nine date… leaving with this ringing in our ears:

Sasha: Some part of me is thinking that maybe one of them is playing her. It could all fall apart at the end.

She’s here to talk about how dating over the phone took away expectations placed on her because of how she looks… and to predict what Charlie and Sabo will choose–Maxine, or the money.

Caitlin: Hello, Sasha.

Sasha: What's up?

Caitlin: When you're called Sasha, do you feel like it's like you're putting on your cape or something?
Sasha: Uh, I feel very sophisticated.

Caitlin: Ooh.

Sasha: But yeah, it is kind of like a, like a, um, masquerade mask, you know? Like I'm, I have to perform at, at some point, but not, not necessarily performance, it's just hiding the fact that it's me. Yeah.

Caitlin: All right. That sounds fun. Well, I was really sad that you got the hang up. Not that I don't love every, all of our Callers.

Sasha: Yeah, yeah.

Caitlin: But I, I really thought you were gonna be…

Sasha: You thought I was the one?

Caitlin: If not the one then top, top, you know? Do you feel like, uh, you were like, the Sasha we got to know and hang up is the same as the person you are in reality.

Sasha: Um, I'd say it's a little tapered down. A little water down.

Caitlin: Who's tapered down?

Sasha: Sasha.

Caitlin: Oh.

Sasha: She's the sophisticated one. She has to like, keep her composure. You know me, I'm a wild ass nigga. I'll lose my shit. But no, I'm just, I'm just like, I'm, I'm the class clown, life of the party type person where I come into a room of a bunch of people, I kind of have to make a joke to like break the tension or, I don't know. It's like, one of those things where you're just like, you know what people kind of expect from you, and sometimes being what I look like, people expect me to be a little bit hard. I'm, you know, more masculine. And it's like really refreshing when I'm just like smiling and giggly and just like laughing at shit and pointing things out that make no sense. Or, you know, having, just having a ball for no reason. I'm out there, I'm out there, baby, I just gotta be out there. But Sasha is tightly compacted. Me, distilled.

Caitlin: Ooh, hell yeah. So do you feel like not having that physical expectation, like since people couldn't see you physically, do you feel like that took away some expectations of what people might think that you would do or be like?

Sasha: Right, yeah. Yeah, because especially like, I don't know, sometimes the way I talk is not necessarily lined up with the way I look. You know, being a masculine presenting person and then being kind of like neutral energy is, I don't know. It's weird to navigate. It's just, I gotta be me. But at the same time, I think I do try and fit in people's boxes so that, so to speak, like, you know, if I'm around women, I tend to be more feminine. But in a masculine space, I gotta bro it up. You know?

Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah. I guess I, on the phone it's like you can kind of like just be however you're feeling that day.

Sasha: Exactly. Yeah. I can be Sasha Fierce, or I can be Super Sasha. I don't know, it's just like, you get what you get and you be happy about it. Yeah.

Caitlin: I, I was happy about all of it.

Sasha: Oh great.

Caitlin: Um, so there's one thing I wanna ask you about that you said when you got the hang up, you said, “Some part of me is thinking that maybe one of them is playing her. It could all fall apart at the end.”

Sasha: Well see, that’s, that's the whole thing about the game is like you never know what people's intentions are upfront. So when I saw you guys like posting your ad or whatever, like I was like, oh cool, another opportunity to find a date. Wonderful. Let me sign up. But somebody could have been like, hell yeah, dating show. I got that ris, I'm coming. I'm coming in hard and I'm gonna win that money. And it was like, that's always in the back of my mind is like someone could be, it's, it has potential to be, the end of the game, somebody had been like, I was in it for the money the whole time. That would have blown my fucking mind. Like damn, that's cold cause you're like thinking the whole time you've got this chemistry you're building and you're like thinking at the end of this you're going away with like a little vacay and it's gonna be nice and, nope. Like the fact that that was a possibility was always on my mind. Always on my mind.

Caitlin: Do you, were you getting that vibe from any of the other callers?

Sasha: No. So the weird part about it is, so I'm gonna be real honest, I thought Charlie wasn't trying at first. Like, this man does not care, but he made it to the end and he was actually like, pretty funny. I, I liked Charlie after, like, after he stuck it out. I was like, all right, well, if I don't win, I hope he does.

Caitlin: Okay. So you're Team Charlie.

Sasha: Sabo, I didn't hear very much of. But Charlie was like, in it with the quips and you know, just like he just had a, had a little something for everything and I, I thought he was funny. So, yeah. Yeah. Coming in with the ris man, he was like super charisma. He just had it. I was like, all right, this guy knows what he is doing. But at first I was like, he is not even trying, he's not even trying. Why is he still here?

Caitlin: Yeah. If you had to put your money on which one Charlie would choose or which one Sabo would choose…

Sasha: Oh, no, you didn't.

Caitlin: What do you think they, they're gonna pick?

Sasha: Oh, you didn't. Oh no, you didn't. I have to choose who won or who, who would pick what?

Caitlin: Who, yeah. Cause both of them, before Maxine makes her final choice, they have to say what they, they would pick.

Sasha: Man. I have to say that my faith in humanity makes me think that they would both choose to go out with her.

Caitlin: Okay. Yeah. They're both choosing the vacation. All right.

Sasha: Just my heart says yeah, like that, they really wanted to, yeah.

Caitlin: We're rooting for Maxine here really in this prediction course.

Sasha: Cause the whole point was to like find a little something, you know, like get acquainted with someone at least. Um, and that would be fucked up. If it was just all like, well, I was playing game, but she might not be walking away with love. Who knows?

Caitlin: Um, yeah. We'll find out soon. But we're here to talk about you. About me. Yeah. So, um, I wanna get to know the real you, we've seen the distilled version. Apparently. So I wanna play Two Truths and a Lie.

Sasha: Okay. Um, I'm ready. Yes, please tell me. All right, so number one, I have performed in front of thousands of people. Number two, I have a giant dragon tattoo on my back. And number three, I have watched a woman drag a string of pearls from her vagina.

Caitlin: Oh my God. Um, that last one is so specific that I'm like, that has to be true.

Sasha: Who knows?

Caitlin: Um, dang. Now I'm like looking at your tattoos I can see to see if the dragon would fit. Um,

Sasha: I don't know would it?

Caitlin: I don't know. We got a skull, we got birds. Askull plus birds kind of is a dragon.

Sasha: Kind of. So believable.

Caitlin: Yeah. And then you performed in front of thousands?

Sasha: Thousands.

Caitlin: Of people. Damn, that seems like something you would do too. All of these are, this is some Sasha shit, right?

Sasha: Little mind fuckage.

Caitlin: I'm gonna say the dragon tattoo’s the lie.

Sasha: How, see, look, I told you, I told you I'm bad at this. How did you know?

Caitlin: I just think you probably have a tattoo, but it's not a dragon on your back.

Sasha: You're right.

Caitlin: Yes. But let's circle back to this string of pearls. What, what happened?

Sasha: True story. True story.

Caitlin: Uhhuh. Tell me.

Sasha: Um, I went to a sex show in Amsterdam. Oh. And. I mean, it's literally like a rotating stage, like a, like a lazy Susan of people fucking. Like five minutes of this couple fucking, moves the lazy Susan, five minutes of this couple fucking, moves, the lazy Susan. And then it was like a little break and this lady's on stage doing a strip tease. I mean, she's like, you know, doing her thing, but she's kinda lightly stripteasing and she finally like, grabs a guy and pulls him up on stage. And at this point she still has on like a garter belt and some heels, like half her clothes.

Caitlin: Yeah.

Sasha: Uh, and she just like sits him down on the stage, takes the rest of it off. And then proceeds to reach down and grab a string of pearls and hand it to this fella. She handed it to him and he took it willingly. And she backed up a good ten feet and made a motion, like a jump rope, and this motherfucker started jumping rope with the fucking string of pearls still attached to her pussy. Like it was literally still still in there. Uh, and he was, you know, just swinging it. And, uh, that was the end. Ta-da.

Caitlin: Wow.

Sasha: You know, I was impressed, amazed, and I will never forget that day.

Caitlin: I will never forget this story.

Sasha: I should have said I should have. I went to a sex show. Yeah, you might have thought that was a lie.

Caitlin: Oh, I wouldn't have thought that was a lie Sasha..

Sasha: Dammit. You got me again.

Caitlin: We just heard your Star 69 date, I don't think I would've thought anything sexual you said was a lie.

Sasha: So you know that's true. Although I was very, I was very tame on that one.

Caitlin: So, I wanna hear about your approach to dating IRL. How do you go about like, finding people you wanna date?

Sasha: Um, well, I was doing Tinder for a little while. I'd like go to Babes or something.

Caitlin: Babe's, the lesbian bar in Richmond.

Sasha: The premier.

Caitlin: You know, volleyball court,

Sasha: Exclusive, exclusive benches and shit. Yeah.

Caitlin: Is that how you in an ideal world, would like to meet people? Or is there like a different way you wish you could meet people?

Sasha: I wish I had that meet cute at a library.

Caitlin: Library's pretty cute.

Sasha:Yeah. But I'm like, I don't know. Like again, with the masculine presenting stigma it’s just like, if she ain't coming to me, I'm probably just gonna like stare awkwardly. Like one time I was at Target. I seen this girl and she had like a crop top, body was banging. I'm just like, “excuse me, this is broad daylight, ma'am.” But, uh, I ran into her like several times and every time all I could do is just be like, you know, I'm just like stuck, like, damn, you fine. But I just, you never know how they feel, you know? So it's like, she might be staring at me because I'm staring at her and she's noticing that I'm staring at her. But if she really like, you know, you gotta throw a smile or a wink or something, like, let, let me know.

Caitlin: So your ideal situation would be like you just run into someone, you're looking at her, she's looking at you, and there's like a little wink.

Sasha: Yeah.

Caitlin: I like that.

Sasha: Like, “hey, hot stuff.: Like, oh, okay. You know, because I mean, that's generally like been the pattern. Like I very rarely would make a move first unless I knew like, you're attracted to me. Like, that's just how it is. I've never actually asked anyone to be my girlfriend. They've always just claimed it. Hmm. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like consent, consent, consent, and then more consent.

Caitlin: Consent. But like, I also hear you, it sounds like maybe you're, you're not asking either, you know.

Sasha: No, not really.

Caitlin: Uhhuh. Yeah. So what, what's that about?

Sasha: Um, I don't know. I don't like to be rejected. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't like to be rejected and…

Caitlin: Yeah, it sucks.

Sasha: I don't like people to think that I'm a predator. Like that misconception is like, It's real. It's real. You'll, you know, hit somebody up just on some friend type shit, just trying to get to know 'em. Then they'll, you know, give you the stiff arm because you're being friendly. I'm bisexual. I don't know if I ever said that.

Caitlin: Oh, I thought no, this whole time I thought you were just gay.

Sasha: Just gay, straight up gay. I look gay as fuck. So it makes sense. But that's another like, additional layer to it is like lesbians don't like bisexuals. And it's always gonna be that thing of, are you gonna cheat on me? You can doubly cheat on me with a male or a female. And it's just like, it's hard. It's just having to navigate this space in this body is hard.

Caitlin: Yeah. When you like, imagine kind of like hypothetically looking to the future, what you want out of, you know, in your romantic life, in your life kind of generally what do you think of?

Sasha: I think if, uh, if I had my way I'd be married, maybe rich, filthy rich, um…

Caitlin: Fuck yeah.

Sasha: You know, with, a house in the country and a place in the city and bop back and forth, my partner would probably be, just as flighty as I am.

Caitlin: What do you mean by that?

Sasha: Just like willing to say, “fuck yeah, let's go.” Like let's do it.

Caitlin: Like off the cuff. Like spontaneous.

Sasha: Not spontaneous. Not spontaneous. I don't like, I don't like that word. I don't like that word because I like to plan. Yeah. I weigh the options, but I'm very impulsive. I do things if it feels good. It's just like you got however many years that you're allegedly gonna live, do something crazy. You know? Don't say no to everything because one day you might be wishing like, “I should have said yes to that. I should have did that. I should have did that.” You have regrets and then you're gonna be old as shit skydiving. Like, fuck outta here, fuck outta here. Do that shit when you're 25, get it out the way.

Caitlin: Skydive when you're young. That's your advice.

Sasha: Yep. I mean, shit like, cause it's really, I mean, it's really just I think, a mentality I've had since I was like 20 something. Because I had cancer really young.

Caitlin: Yeah, I know you mentioned that to Marcus.

Sasha: Yeah. And that was a big deal. Like I almost died, you know? At 21 when it's like the world's opening up to me. I got finally got, you know, the chance to go drink and I can rent a car now and do whatever the fuck I wanna do. And life's like, “bitch, you thought, get your ass in that hospital bed and sit there for six months.” You know, it's just like, well, now that you're done with that, uh, what are you gonna do? Anything the fuck I want.

Caitlin: If you could go back to yourself at that time when you were after your remission, what advice would you give yourself?

Sasha: Loosen up. Cause like, when I was a teenager, you think this is crazy? Like when I was a teenager, let me tell you, I was a bad bitch, a bad bitch, a bad one. And I had problems like you couldn't hold me down like we was always drinking, throwing a party, smoking, doing whatever the fuck, orgies, why not?

Caitlin: But then loosen up when that You mean tighten up or?

Sasha: No, no, no, no. So when I got to 21.

Caitlin: Oh, gotcha. Okay.

Sasha: And got smacked down after that, I was kind of like, clammed up. Like I was bald. I was recovering from surgery, recovering from radiation, so my body wasn't the same. I just didn't have that same confidence that I had when I was a teenager. Like, I would look down when I walked instead of, you know, straight forward. It really like took me a while to like build back up because I think the mentality is this is like when you're 21, you're on top of the world. And you're ready for life. You're thinking, I'm about to thrive, like this is my chance. Especially when you've had a hard childhood, hard time in high school you're ready for a release on life. And then when you find out that you could probably die, it's like, well, now I'm afraid of everything. Now everything scares me. Everything hurts me. It's like I want to just ball up, shrink away and never come outside again. And one day I was just like, you gotta get over that. And you gotta open up your shell and just thrive again.

Caitlin: It's interesting cause like now the narrative you have around your cancer diagnosis was that is like, you're like, fuck it, live your life. But the immediate reality of that was fear.

Sasha: Right. Fear of life because it's so precious and you just know like you're always hanging in the balance that that scare of cancer is like the reality of it. That you really are just hanging in the balance. Like, we could walk outta this room today and never see each other again. It's a, a real truth. And that is the type of shit that like is in my mind when people are like, “Here's this opportunity to do something great. Do you want to try it?” And I'm thinking to myself, “Probably should, probably should go on, get that under my belt. Probably should.”

Caitlin: Well, I did wanna give you the opportunity before we wrap to…

Sasha: I'm scared.

Caitlin: If you want to let people know your real name, maybe shout out your, uh, socials so people can slide into your DMs, give you a little, little winky emoji like you're asking for it. This is your opportunity. It's up to you.

Sasha: Well, my name is Kim Bryan. And, uh, you can find me on Instagram and Facebook @kdotbryan. So that's both of them. Awesome.

Caitlin: Lovely to be here with you, Kim. Oh yeah.

Sasha: AKA Sasha Gang Gang.

Caitlin: Beautiful. Um, we'll see you at the reunion.

Sasha: Oh, shit. Exciting.

Hang Up is created and produced by me, Caitlin Pierce.

Our host and story editor is Zakiya Gibbons.

This episode was mixed and sound designed by Ben Montoya. Ben is also our story editor.

Music by Jeff Carter and Stephen Pathe of Sandy. Hear more at sandy-sounds.com.

Art by Alex Teschel.

Studio recording by the ICA Community Media Center.

Our sounding board is Allison Behringer, Karla Corrales, Chioke I’Anson, and Grayum Vickers.

Hang Up is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, creator-owned, listener-supported podcasts. Discover audio with vision at Radiotopia.fm.